Nestoria Interview: Jeff Thurston from Vector1

There's no one better to get to explain things to you than a teacher or university lecturer, which is probably why when Jeff Thurston writes about what's happening at the GIS, visualisation and geo-spatial fields for his media company Vector1, he makes complex ideas much easier to understand.  Which is also why he makes such a great interviewee. 

First, a question about your background: have you always had an interest in cartography or is it the marriage of mapping and technology that makes the geo-spatial space so interesting to you?

I began by studying forestry in Canada. To learn about forests and to manage them involves the use of mapping and cartography. Most of my earliest efforts involved forest measurements for understanding fibre volumes, forest fire mapping, hydrological mapping and plant assessments. It was not until later when I started to teach surveying and started to use digital technologies like GPS and laser measuring devices that I began to get more excited. I made the connection between field data gathering devices and GIS early and that really compelled me to learn all I could about geospatial technologies in a broader sense. I could suddenly see how geology, soils, water, plants and climate all connected through time and space. The fact that this information could be interpreted, related and analysed really piqued my interest. As a result I could see these tools as being enablers to understanding and communication and ultimately decision making.

You're reporting on what's happening at the very front of the GIS wave so you're in an excellent position to judge what technologies have changed the geo-spatial landscape most over the past decade.  Can you tell us about the industry's main technological advances?

GIS is the integrator of spatial information. It is the key for pulling aerial photography, laser scanning, transport networks, marine data, GNSS information so many other spatial data together into one framework. Without GIS I doubt we would see much of a spatial information industry today.

Surveying technology is also important.  Through surveying we establish administrative units upon which land management and transparency take place. You will notice that the most advanced places around the world invariably have strong land administrative systems and cadastral networks. These are the basic fabrics upon which spatial transactions take place. GPS has really propelled the spatial industry forward because it not only locates where things are, but now we see it embedded into technologies to enable real-time applications that move and provide spatial information dynamically.
I think developments in software databases are enabling larger and faster transactions to take place and the area of remote sensing has been able to develop automated techniques and libraries for analysis that truly increase throughput and processing of vast quantities of imagery.

And what have the important issues been?

There have been many important issues. The largest issue surrounds the building of capacity - a community of people that think about problems and solutions spatially. Some say spatial is not special, but it is.  You will find that the most advanced companies and organizations understand problems and phenomena in a spatial context and that they can leverage tools to solve problems in creative ways, often quicker and cheaper. The issue involves education and continually includes a willingness to help others to understand.

Free access to data has been a large issue in some places but there are other issues related to it.  For example, the US has lots of free data and one might assume that that has created the spatial industry there, or at least helped to stimulate it. But the US lacks a cohesive, integrated strategy for building a national or even regional spatial data infrastructures upon all that information - simply tossing free information out into the open, in my view, only partially stimulates advancements. By comparison, the European approach involves both free, but mostly charged for data. But more importantly, it includes a strategic structure under a SDI umbrella for using spatial information. While some might argue that the public-private approach in Europe has drawbacks, I think it can still be shown that the private industry drives the market and further gains from the strong SDI direction inherit in European approaches. Slowly we will see so much data that the only data charged for will be the highest accuracy, real-time kind.

Do you have any thoughts on the pros and cons of user generated geo-spatial content and how it can be better incorporated in with other data in a useful way?

The user-generated aspect is really exciting and intriguing I think. I see general public involvement and user generated information as an integral part of the entire spatial stream. It fits into the modeling and design parts particularly well because it embodies the notion that feedback from professional GIS - CAD can be assessed based on real people conditions, then dynamically returned to GIS-CAD, further processed and distributed. It stimulates geospatial applications from static to dynamic varieties.

People tend to look at this as a either or paradigm, and that is wrong. Instead, it is important to think of user use/generated portions as integral to the operation of a GIS or CAD. Rather than these two technologies sending information and results out into the open, they push results out, gain testing, experience, added data and more input in terms of new data that is returned from users to again revalidate, calibrate and set the gears in motion to geoprocess further. Thus, the dynamic nature at much higher resolution and locality adds immensely to the effectiveness.

And what are likely to be some of the conversations the industry is most engaged with going forwards?  (bringing the less well mapped regions of the world up to speed, using GIS to counter natural disasters and manage climate change?)

I think the geospatial community has to quit talking about itself and talk more about serving society. We sometimes get too caught up in 'that is cool' when we should instead be thinking about clean water, better transportation, cheaper electricity and higher quality living  - for everyone. There is a tendency to localize in some cases, where people do not realise that there are opportunities all around the world to develop applications for. The state of current technology enables us to start including decision making and governance into the pathway of our solutions. For example, we often know outcomes for certain kinds of emergencies, so we need to develop tools that deal with emergencies effectively so mitigation and help can be mobilised quicker and more effectively.

Another issue is mobility. Many people in various countries only use mobile phones. They do not sit at desktops, and this has the effect of providing information quicker to far reaching places and returning results. We need stronger mobile applications for emergencies and services that reach far and wide and connect people to advanced computing results. Finally, because we understand the spatial nature of resources and the environment, it is important that we become involved in initiatives like REDD that seek to establish a better understanding of ecological services.

Do you have any opinion about what could be on the GIS horizon from a technological perspective?

I think we will see GIS become more closely aligned with design. For example, the the dynamic nature of GIS will allow people to design spaces more closely with the participation of people locally. The connection between GIS and CAD will continue to grow closer and the inclusion of information modeling from infrastructure applications will include decision support tools. 3D is going to expand as people understand it is more than a picture and actually has practical applications involving such things as clash and space intrusions and improves design efficiencies. The whole area of 3D geoprocessing is still very much in its infancy.

I'm a big fan of clever geo related apps, mash-ups and sites - are there any good ones that you've seen and can recommend?

I've seen quite a few that I find interesting, but I will leave it to you to identify them by name.  The most interesting ones involves increased user input and participation, and for me, I like the ones that make my day to day tasks easier and quicker to do.

And lastly is there any product, site, or app. that you'd love to see that technology hasn't quite created the possibility for yet?  If so can you tellus about it and what it would do?

I would like to see an application that provides a problem in some land somewhere and includes a way that people can put their brains together online to add data, provide solutions, or generate possibilities that can be used. In a way this is accomplished in sites where emergencies are, but not to the depth I would like to see. It would be interesting to develop a land management plan in virtual spaces for a real place. Then run it and have sensors there and watch the results. This could actually be made into an education effort with some thought.

If there's anything else you'd like to talk about please feel free to speak now...

One of the issues that needs more debate and discussion surrounds the issue of privacy. I am not sure that we have it right yet on privacy vis a vis geospatial data. Part of the problem is that many people are only discovering the power of a map now, yet, they have been around for centuries and include all sorts of historical information, private information and details. People mix up the notion that all data is real-time and it simply is not. A discussion surrounding geospatial data and common sense needs to take place. The fear in this debate is that governments will regulate all these technologies when in fact they have immense possibilities for creating good, solving problems and empowering people to improve quality of life. Many of those advocating for the fear of spatial data actually want to control the data, sometimes hiding it away. That is not freedom, and that is not what transparency is about. I trust people will know how to resolve these issues if the discussion begins.

Thanks very much for those last thoughts, and for your thoughful responses.  Certainly a lot to go away and think about.

Jeff Thurston holds a Master of Science Degree in Geographic Information Science from Manchester Metropolitan University, UK and graduated in Forest Technology from Lakehead University in Canada. Jeff also graduated with an Advanced Diploma in Geographic Information Systems (UNIGIS) from Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada. Previously, Jeff worked at the University of Alberta located in Edmonton, Canada where he managed research facilities for inter-disciplinary research projects. He taught surveying, GIS and GPS at the university in the undergraduate program and was a developer of international online course development and delivery. Jeff has also reviewed many technologies for leading manufacturers and has previously been editor at GeoInformatics and GeoConnexion magazines in Europe before co-founding Vector1 Media.  Jeff is based in Berlin, Germany and serves as editor for the Europe, Russia, Middle East and African markets. He is a member of the Canadian Association of Journalists.